Standing Committee G

[Mr. Peter Pike in the Chair]

Education Bill

Schedule 18 - Amendments of part 5 of Education Act 1997

Amendment moved [this day]: No. 560, in page 176, line 36, leave out paragraph 1.—[Mr. Brady.]

Peter Pike: I remind the Committee that with this we are taking the following amendments: No. 561, in page 177, line 2, at end insert—
'types of'.
 No. 562, in page 177, line 4, leave out 'excessive' and insert— 
'reasonable'.
 No. 563, in page 177, line 8, after 'approve', insert— 
'(including terms of payment)'.
 No. 564, in page 177, line 14, at end insert— 
'''(3B) Where the Authority shall exercise its powers later than at the time of accreditation, it shall give not less than 180 days notice of such changes to the producer of such qualification.''.'.
 No. 565, in page 177, line 14, at end insert— 
' ''(3C) Where the Authority shall exercise its powers later than at the time of accreditation the Authority shall bear the costs of any such changes, to the awarding body or educational institutions.''.'.
 No. 566, in page 177, line 22, leave out subparagraph (ii).

Graham Brady: Amendment No. 565 follows logically from the thrust of my argument on the other amendments, especially No. 564.
 It is reasonable to build in a period of notice in the event that an accreditation is removed during a course of study leading up to an examination or qualification. It is also reasonable that where accreditation is removed during a course of study, the costs should be borne by the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority rather than by the awarding body, school or educational institution that is involved in teaching that course of study. 
 Amendment No. 566 is designed to probe the Minister's intentions behind the broad rights of entry in the provisions that extend as far as allowing unfettered rights of entry when determining a reasonable fee. Subsection (2) should be deleted, thereby constraining the powers of entry to a certain extent. Although inspectors could enter the premises of an awarding body to satisfy themselves that the appropriate standards were being maintained in relation to the award or authentication of a qualification, they could not enter and have unfettered access to the awarding body's accounts and confidential papers. 
 It seems extreme to take powers to allow the QCA powers of entry to crawl all over the books of an awarding body to decide an appropriate fee for a qualification. That suggests that the Government believe that we are moving towards a single awarding body rather than several competing awarding bodies that can keep the fee under control through normal competition in the marketplace. We shall be interested to hear the Minister's comments.

Andrew Turner: I should like to support my hon. Friend the Member for Altrincham and Sale, West (Mr. Brady) in these proposals, particularly in so far as they are designed to probe the Government's intentions regarding competition between examining bodies and any intention they may have either of maintaining standards or of driving down prices by unifying the examining board as is the case in Scotland.
 The Under-Secretary of State for Education and Skills will be aware of cases that I have brought to his attention concerning the Edexcel examining board—in particular, its history syllabus 9267. I thank him for his responses to the concerns of my constituents and of the staff at Carisbrooke high school in my constituency who have had extraordinary difficulties with the board. 
 Thirty-six of the school's students took the history exam at advanced level in June 2001. If it is any comfort to my hon. Friend, I may tell him that I obtained a grade E in A-level history—it was, of course, much more difficult then. The pupils got worse results than expected, but most of them got good results in politics, which was taught by the same teacher. They launched an appeal on 19 August and were told that they would receive a reply within 20 to 30 working days. After 59 days, no response had been received. During that time, candidates of course suffer the danger of having their university applications rejected and their places given to someone else. 
 The lesson here is the inability of Ministers, despite their best endeavours, to offer any comfort. The Minister said that his officials had been in touch with the Joint Council for General Qualifications and he understood that the report on appeals would not be coming out until March 2002; that it would not contain the information that parents wanted; and that 
''It is at the discretion of Edexcel to make such information public and I have been advised that they have no plans to do so''.
 That seems extraordinary. I recall that when Sir Keith Joseph was Secretary of State the only power he had over examining bodies was to sign the certificates at O-level and A-level. On the back of that, he was able to introduce GCSEs. The lesson that some would draw is that we must have a single examining body under state control. That is not my conclusion—and I am glad to see the Minister shaking his head—because the clear message from Mary Hoather, the head teacher at the school, in her letter of 17 January to the chief executive of Edexcel is 
''Clearly our frustration and anger has made us change examination board for our history examinations in future and is making us consider seriously for other subjects''.
 In other words, the market is working. It would work a great deal better if there were not only three examination boards for England. It would work better still were people able to recognise openly that the standards of some examining boards are slightly higher than others. 
 I remember from my schooldays our slight criticism of those who took Associated Examining Board examinations rather than Oxford and Cambridge examinations, because we felt the standards were not the same. I am sure that that was recognised also by higher and further education institutions. I do not agree that there is competition to drive down standards, as long as there is transparency about which board issued the certificates. I hope that the Minister will assure me that there is no agenda to unify the examination under state control as has so lamentably happened in Scotland.

Ivan Lewis: May I take this opportunity for the last time to welcome you to the Chair, Mr. Pike. The hon. Member for Isle of Wight (Mr. Turner) shared his history grade with the Committee: that might explain his distorted view of the previous Government's record—[Laughter.]—or perhaps not.
 The comments on Edexcel underline the importance of the relationship between the QCA and the examination boards. The impact that such events have on students and their families is traumatic and stressful, and we should not understate the effect on those individuals. However, we should not exaggerate the problem and give the impression that the examination system is on the verge of collapse. If serious mistakes are made in a couple of examination situations, we have a responsibility to maintain an appropriate, balanced reaction. 
 Edexcel experienced difficulties during the curriculum 2000 reforms. The Government responded by asking the QCA to audit that examination board, and to report on the reasons for those weaknesses and failings. That report will be published soon, and will be a public document. MPs and others will be able to examine the reasons for those difficulties and the QCA's recommendations for putting them right. 
 The QCA has placed its head of quality assurance at Edexcel, to ensure that performance improves immediately. It is important that none of the mistakes be repeated when students take their exams in the summer. Committee members were right to express concern, but we should have a proportionate, responsible response. The conclusion that we make about the difficulties of one examination board should not lead us to believe that the best solution is to create a monopoly provider. That is not the Government's position. 
 It is appropriate to have choice and diversity, but we cannot tolerate too many failures of the kind that have occurred. It is important that the QCA use its powers. The amendments concern the relationship 
 between the QCA and the examination boards. That underlines the importance of the QCA's role as a regulator of the performance and standards of the examination boards, and its powers of intervention when mistakes are made. 
 Most of the amendments have reasonable objectives, although they are not necessary or desirable. Amendment No. 560 would remove the paragraph enabling the QCA to devise and apply criteria that would limit the number of qualifications in similar subjects or functions that it accredits. We consider that paragraph very important. We intend to have a robust and transparent framework of worthwhile qualifications that can be easily understood by users and the general public. 
 It is also important that learning and training needs in that context are fully addressed. Equally importantly, public choice and confidence may well be improved if the number of qualifications is reduced, and the unnecessary overlap and duplication in provision is eliminated. We believe that it is a sensible power to give the QCA when the qualifications framework is not actually supporting the objectives of raising standards and making things clear for students, when it is confusing, when it is unwieldy and when there is unnecessary duplication. We believe that it is appropriate to ensure that the QCA can intervene in those circumstances to streamline and rationalise in a reasonable way. We believe that the majority of people would support its having that reasonable power. 
 Over the past two years, the QCA has undertaken a substantial programme of accrediting qualifications up to and including level 3. It has accredited more than 3,000 qualifications. In many areas, we have the qualifications that we need, but there is a doubt about whether the QCA and its sister regulatory authorities can legally deny accreditation to qualifications that may otherwise be sound but may unnecessarily increase provision in particular subjects. If we are to avoid an undesirable proliferation of qualifications, it is important that the QCA should be able to have the power and the criteria to deal specifically with the issue of excessive numbers of qualifications. For that reason, we do not believe that amendment No. 562, which would replace ''excessive'' with ''reasonable'', would be helpful.

Graham Brady: Is the Minister saying that amendment No. 562—which, as I said, was originally drafted to replace ''excessive'' with ''unreasonable''—is unnecessary because the word ''excessive'', as used in this clause, equates to the word ''unreasonable''?

Ivan Lewis: Yes. I think that the objective is the same. We would argue that there is no need to substitute the word in the way that the hon. Gentleman suggests.
 Amendment No. 561 would reduce flexibility and could lead to perverse results in terms of what the QCA may want to achieve. As drafted, it would enable the QCA to limit the qualification types in which a particular subject is available, but not the number of qualifications in that subject. I think that the hon. 
 Gentleman would, on reflection, agree that such a change would not help us to achieve our goal of ensuring that there is not a proliferation of qualifications that are difficult to understand for candidates, teachers and employers.

Graham Brady: Does the Minister not agree that what is important for the transparency of qualifications and the ability of parents, employers and others to understand their value, is the rigour of the qualification itself, rather than the precise content of the curriculum in that subject? I am slightly concerned that the drift of his argument appears to be that it would be worrying to have a GCSE in the history of ancient Rome parallel to one on Carthaginian studies. The subject matter is surely less important. There should be that variety and choice of subject matter. Is not the legitimate goal of the QCA to ensure that the standard of those qualifications is rigorous and transparent to those who need to know?

Ivan Lewis: I agree that that is central to the role of the QCA, but I am sure the hon. Gentleman would also agree that we do not want an unnecessary proliferation of qualifications, because that just leads to confusion. Yes, the primary responsibility of the QCA is to safeguard the rigour and standards of qualifications. That is absolutely central and it is particularly relevant, for example, in the context of the introduction of new GCSEs in vocational subjects, to be staged over two years, starting this September.
 We believe, in the context of our 14 to 19 policy, that if we are to achieve parity of esteem for what has always been described as vocational education, it will be essential that the content of the qualifications—the rigour—is every bit as strong and respected as that of equivalent academic qualifications. We will work with the QCA to ensure that that is the case in the future. That will be a central part of what we are saying about wanting to give more young people more opportunities in what has been described as vocational education. I think that we would all agree that we have not in the past succeeded in making vocational education work in this country, and if it is now to work and be effective, the robustness, quality and credibility of the qualifications will be absolutely essential, so I accept the hon. Gentleman's point about the QCA's general responsibilities in those areas.

Graham Brady: I am grateful to the Minister and pleased that he accepts that point. By way of illustration, could he give us an idea of the kind of overlap or duplication that he thinks would be unnecessary or unwelcome in terms of subject matter, so that we can see how Ministers might envisage these criteria being used to limit the number of different subjects being offered within a qualification?

Ivan Lewis: If the Bill is enacted, it will be the role of the QCA to make those judgments. One example would be if we had 10 virtually identical qualifications but they were badged or branded slightly differently, leading to unnecessary confusion and a lack of clarity about what each qualification actually meant. That would not be efficient or lead to the kind of credible, transparent system that we want to create. We want to give the QCA reasonable powers, as the body that is
 charged with those responsibilities, to make credible and reasonable decisions. I am not sure why the hon. Gentleman is so concerned about seeking to limit the QCA's capacity to take such decisions. That is one of the reasons that the QCA exists in the form that it does.

Graham Brady: I am not concerned about trying to limit the QCA's role, I am concerned to know why the Minister is so keen to extend its role in this way, why he believes these criteria need to be available and in what circumstances they would be used. The example that he gave, that there may be 10 qualifications all differently branded but rather similar, seemed to suggest that he was referring to types of qualification, rather than subjects, and that his concern was that there could be a City and Guilds, a BTEC and perhaps something else, all in relatively similar subject areas. He has not actually given any indication of where he believes the subject areas covered by qualifications may be too close and would need to be altered in the way that the Bill provides.

Ivan Lewis: It is clearly possible that those circumstances will arise in future, so it makes sense to give the QCA the power to deal with them. I see no risk in giving the QCA the ability to take reasonable management decisions in that regard.

Andrew Turner: May I illustrate the point? The word ''branded'' was used, which will lead us astray if we are not careful. There are three examination boards, each of which offers a history syllabus. The brand is the name of the board, not the name of the syllabus. The badge is the name of the syllabus, which might be ''History, 20th Century''. All three boards may offer broadly the same syllabus but with different brands. I hope that the QCA will not try to prevent the offer of the same syllabus with different brands. It might try to prevent the offer of differently badged but similar syllabuses by the same board. Is that correct?

Ivan Lewis: Yes, that is the point. Many bodies do not issue generic qualifications; they issue individual qualifications. As he is probably aware, there are 98 awarding bodies largely offering vocational qualifications. That reinforces the point that it makes sense to give the QCA the power, where appropriate, to rationalise the situation sensibly and responsibly if it becomes confusing for students, employers and others for whom it is important to get the provisions right. That is all that we seek to do. We expect the QCA to exercise reasonable judgment, and overall it has a good track record.
 The changes that we are making through schedule 18 are designed to provide clarification and make changes to the powers of the QCA that are in line with the legislation's original intention. Amendment No. 563 proposes a significant change by removing the QCA's ability to make a charge for accreditation work. The QCA has not considered that and does not propose to do so now, but there may be circumstances in which it is necessary to reconsider the position. It is therefore important that the QCA retain that power. 
 On amendments Nos. 564 and 565, I appreciate the concern that the QCA might impose conditions post-
 accreditation unreasonably and that that might detrimentally affect the awarding bodies' cost base or economic viability. However, I believe that that concern is not well founded. As I said, we expect the QCA to carry out its functions reasonably and to take soundly based decisions. Indeed, as a statutory body, it must legally act reasonably. In doing so, we expect the QCA to take account of the costs of any conditions that are intended to support policy developments. 
 The QCA is also expected to consult the relevant awarding body before imposing any post-accreditation conditions. As a matter of administrative law, it is bound to do so. However, it would be highly undesirable to impose an arbitrary time bar for a condition that may result from the need to address a problem in the delivery of a qualification that is uncovered during post-accreditation monitoring. That is an example of where the power may be necessary. In those circumstances, urgent action may be required if the learner's best interests are to be served. 
 Equally, it would not be appropriate to require the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority to pay systematically for the implementation of those changes. It is difficult to predict the conditions that the QCA may want to impose post-accreditation rather than waiting until the qualifications come forward for re-accreditation. I am sure that the hon. Member for Altrincham and Sale, West will agree that if the conditions work to remedy weaknesses in an awarding body, it would be inappropriate for the QCA to pick up the tab. 
 Amendment No. 566 would remove the proposed change that would give the QCA the right of entry to premises to inspect and copy documents in connection with its power to limit an exam fee. The QCA already has a right of entry, but only in particular circumstances. The current legislation gives the QCA the right of entry only to ensure that standards in qualifications are being maintained. It was an oversight in the original legislation to provide the QCA with a power to limit an exam fee but not with the means of obtaining evidence to help it to take a well-founded decision, and paragraph 4 will remedy that. It is a power that would be used only as a last resort, but it is important. 
 Despite the recent difficulties, the QCA and the awarding bodies generally have a good working relationship, and it is difficult to imagine circumstances in which the power would be needed. However, the Committee must ask itself whether, as we are giving the QCA the power to enter to maintain qualification standards, it would be consistent not to give it the right to obtain the necessary evidence on exam fees. On that basis, I ask the hon. Gentleman not to insist on the amendment.

Graham Brady: I am considering what to do. I started by saying that the group of amendments was intended to probe the Government's thinking and intentions. I am glad that we tabled the amendments, because they have prompted a useful exchange. The Minister was
 good enough to say that he thought that the amendments were reasonable and that he had some sympathy with the apparent objectives. It is not altogether surprising therefore that his response was not entirely convincing.
 We have established that there is some uncertainty in the intentions of this part of the Bill, and it is not clear how the powers may be used in future. We seem to have moved to and fro on the limitation of the number of qualifications that will be on offer, between one concerning the nature of the qualification or the brand or badge that it carries and one that applies to the subject matter or curriculum. That highlighted a weakness in the Government's thinking, and Ministers should reflect further on that, and attempt to give greater clarity to the bodies concerned. 
 In responding to amendment No. 561, the Minister was good enough to agree that the primary responsibility of the QCA is to safeguard the rigour of the qualifications. It is a necessary reserve power that he anticipated would not be used that often. He was helpful and concise on amendment No. 562 in confirming that the definition that applied to the word ''excessive'' should be the same as that applied to the word ''unreasonable''. That will help those who are affected by the legislation. 
 On amendment No. 563, the Minister said that these were reserve powers that were not likely to be used very often. When discussing amendments Nos. 564 and 565, he said that a notice period should not be required because there may be a need to act quickly. I accept that, but I hope that Ministers will consider whether guidance might be given that would encourage the maximum notice to be given if these powers are to be used. 
 On amendment No. 565 and the question of who should bear costs, the Minister said that if an awarding body was at fault, it was unreasonable to expect the QCA to cover the costs. However, accreditation might be removed for reasons other than the fault of the awarding body. The QCA may have changed its approach and revised its expectations of awarding bodies, and in certain circumstances it may be appropriate to expect the costs to be covered. I ask him to reflect on that. Helpfully, he said that the new power in paragraph 4(2) allowing rights of entry to establish whether fee levels are feasible was envisaged as a power of last resort. 
 Again, Ministers may be able to give greater certainty to the awarding bodies about the procedure that might be undergone before the QCA might have recourse to that power of last resort. Certainly it could legitimately expect that in ordinary circumstances it could supply information requested by the QCA and have it taken at face value. Ministers may be able to find a way to resolve that problem. 
 I am not entirely satisfied by the Minister's responses on these amendments, but in the light of his comments and our useful exchange, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. 
 Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. 
 Schedule 18 agreed to.

Clause 184 - LEA functions: qualifications

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Don Touhig: May I also for the last time welcome you to the Chair, Mr. Pike? I am sure that when you and I attend the next works outing we will have many happy reminiscences of our time in Committee Room 10.
 This clause is intended to clarify the legal position of local education authorities in England and Wales that engage in the award or authentication of educational qualifications. It makes specific provision for LEAs to develop, deliver and award qualifications and to charge a fee for those services. It also enables LEAs to make arrangements with other persons and form, participate in or be members of a body corporate to exercise these powers. The clause applies those provisions retrospectively so that there will be no doubt that LEAs that have exercised them hitherto have done so lawfully. As the provisions are for clarification, they do not limit any existing powers of LEAs. 
 Question put and agreed to. 
 Clause 184 ordered to stand part of the Bill. 
 Clauses 185 to 189 ordered to stand part of the Bill. 
 Schedule 11 agreed to.

Don Touhig: I beg to move, That schedule 11 be transferred to end of line 5 on page 178.
 This minor change ensures that the order in which schedule 11 appears on the list of schedules to the Bill matches the order in which the relevant clauses give effect to them. Clause 189 gives effect to schedule 11. The change will have no legal or policy effect. Currently, schedule 11 appears before schedules 12 to 18. According to convention, however, it should appear after them, as they are given effect by clauses that precede clause 189. 
 Question put and agreed to.

Clause 190 - Publication and provision of material

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Andrew Turner: My question relates to subsections (4) and (5). Will the Minister clarify what ''qualifying material'' means? I take it that it is not material that is specified verbatim by the National Assembly, but material that fulfils purposes outlined by it. In those circumstances, it is interesting that subsection (5) states:
''No material published or provided under this section may name any individual to whom it relates.''
 If parents are choosing a school for their children, one thing that may interest them is who the head teacher is. They may also be interested in whether a former pupil is a Wales international rugby player, a successful pentathlete or something similar. Will it be illegal to name them under the clause?

Don Touhig: I can help the hon. Gentleman. The clause provides for local education authorities and governing bodies of LEA-maintained schools in Wales to publish material provided to them by the National Assembly, which is designed to help parents to gain a broader understanding of the performance of schools in their communities. The ''qualifying material'' referred to in the clause will include public examination results and outcomes of national curriculum assessments.
 The clause enables the qualifying material to be put in context by the inclusion of value-added indicators and benchmark data that reflect the socio-economic conditions that prevail in different communities and different parts of Wales. The intention is that any information that the National Assembly requires LEAs or governing bodies to publish under the new power will first be checked by each school concerned.

Andrew Turner: Is that in addition to anything that schools or local authorities may choose to publish?

Don Touhig: Yes.
 Question put and agreed to. 
 Clause 190 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 191 - Partnership agreements and statements

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Andrew Turner: The clause appears to be very widely drawn and allows the National Assembly for Wales to alter completely the balance of responsibilities between school governing bodies and local education authorities from the settlement in the Education Reform Act 1988 that was substantially re-enacted in the Education Act 1996 and the School Standards and Framework Act 1998. My remarks may relate better to the next clause, but may save us debating that clause. The clause will also alter the power of parents to express a choice of school for their children. Will the Minister clarify whether the powers have the effect that I fear they have?

Don Touhig: I refer to my remarks on the previous clause, in which I stressed the importance of giving information so that parents can make proper choices about where their children are educated. The clause enables the National Assembly to make regulations that require any LEA in Wales to enter into a partnership agreement with the governing body of each school maintained by that authority, or each school of a prescribed class. The agreements will be about how the LEA and the governing body of a school discharge their functions in relation to the school in such matters that may be prescribed and other matters that the LEA and the governing body may agree should be prescribed. It is necessary to sustain and enhance existing partnership working between the LEA and the schools maintained by that authority in that way, so that both parties can work together effectively to promote high standards of education in those schools.
 We envisage that the partnership agreements will set out the procedures that the LEAs and schools should adopt to establish agreed common objectives for pupils' educational progress, the actions that the authority will take in exercising its functions, such as visits by advisory staff, and action to be taken to ease the transition of pupils between phases of education and schools. The regulations may provide for review of the agreement and for a deadline by which the LEA or governing body may comply with any requirement imposed by the clause. The clause also enables the LEA to draw up a statement setting out how it and the governing body will discharge their respective functions in relation to the school if neither party is able to reach an agreement.

Andrew Turner: That explanation is certainly helpful, but it would assist me if the Minister would consider an example. Let us say that the LEA would like to have a firmer agreement about the redeployment of redundant teachers than is possible under the current legislation, although we know that schools, not LEAs, are responsible for the appointment of teaching staff. The LEA canvasses the views of Members of the National Assembly, which requires LEAs to enter into a partnership with their governing bodies.
 The purpose of the partnership arrangement is that matters such as facilitating the redeployment of redundant teachers may be prescribed. Some schools object on the grounds that they do not want others' cast-offs, but the LEA may be closing several schools and is determined that it will be less expensive. Most schools in the area do not have any vacancies for teachers and so do not fear the consequences. Most of the schools are able to reach an agreement with the LEA, for the purpose of subsection (1), but one or two schools may not. The LEA then draws up a statement that sets out how they will discharge their respective functions, and governing bodies accept redeployment staff who are available in the LEA. Does the clause permit that?

Don Touhig: I reassure the hon. Gentleman that the clause sets out only how LEAs and governing bodies carry out their functions. It does not alter their functions. It cannot change the law through the power, and so could not change any of their responsibilities in relation to staffing.

Andrew Turner: I thank the Minister for that explanation.
 Question put and agreed to. 
 Clause 191 ordered to stand part of the Bill. 
 Clauses 192 and 193 ordered to stand part of the Bill. 
 Schedule 19 agreed to. 
 Clause 194 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 195 - LEA functions concerning school lunches, milk etc

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Andrew Turner: I have a question about proposed new subsection 512ZA(2) on page 117, which says:
''A local authority shall charge every person the same price for the same quantity of the same item''.
 That sounds admirable. In some schools, teachers are provided with lunch free of charge in return either for specific duties or an agreement to undertake lunchtime supervision or other activities. Would that be forbidden by the clause? Similarly, would it be forbidden for schools to offer lunches to old people in the local community at either a reduced charge or the market rate?

Graham Brady: I want to raise another example that might be important under this clause and on which I would welcome the Minister's reassurance. Might it be sensible and appropriate in various circumstances for a larger quantity of certain foods to be offered at the same price? I shall not detain the Committee for long with this anecdote, but when I was at university there was a dispute in my college over the amount of food available to students. The principal at the time, a splendid lady named Irene Hindmarsh, made the memorable suggestion to the junior common room that we should always sit next to a person of the opposite sex, on the premise that a larger male sitting next to a smaller female might have some of the food that the girl did not want. I am sure that many beautiful relationships began as a result.
 A more prosaic example in the context of a school is where a class has been out on the playing fields on a cold winter's morning and a well-meaning dinner lady gives a little extra food to those in need of sustenance. It would be unfortunate if an over-prescriptive clause were to prevent such a common-sense act of kindness.

Stephen Timms: I look forward to the hon. Gentleman moving on Report an amendment based on his JCR experiences.
 The clause replaces section 512 of the Education Act 1996, which allows LEAs to provide and charge for meals, milk and other refreshments to prescribed persons receiving education. Changes to other legislation have made the original intentions less clear than they were. Some aspects of the legislation are at risk of becoming unworkable. The changes to the benefits and tax credits system have changed the background to these measures. 
 The Bill provides for an order-making power to allow the Secretary of State to add to the benefits allowances or tax credits that would entitle a child to receive a free school lunch. The Secretary of State can limit eligibility to families in receipt of particular tax credits by reference to their income level. I am glad to tell the Committee that the Secretary of State has agreed that those children who would have lost their entitlement to free school meals because of the changes proposed by the Treasury to the tax credit system will have their entitlement protected. We will adjust the free school meal eligibility criteria to secure free school meals for all children who currently receive them, and for others in similar circumstances in the future. The entitlement of about 100,000 children will be protected, and the changes will bring about the 
 extension of free school meal entitlement to an additional 89,000 children in England and Wales. My hon. Friend the Paymaster General is now announcing that news to the Committee considering the Tax Credits Bill, not far from here. 
 The concerns expressed by Opposition Members about further changes are not warranted. The school can pay the cost of teachers' lunches. That is the current basis on which teachers are provided with free lunches, and nothing in the Bill will change that. That will also be true of meals given to visitors: the example of elderly people was cited. The Bill creates a new power for school governors to provide services to the community. Opposition Members need not be concerned that anything is lost in the arrangements; in fact, there are significant gains.

Graham Brady: I have a small but significant point to make. I did not pick up one particular assurance from the Minister. He said that new section 512ZA states that every person should be charged the same price for the same quantity of the same item, but that is not the case. It is possible to offer different portions at the same price.

Stephen Timms: Nothing here changes the existing position of kind dinner ladies. That is the reassurance that the hon. Gentleman was hoping for.
 Question put and agreed to. 
 Clause 195 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 196 - Further education institutions: fees

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Ivan Lewis: I shall move that the clause should not stand part, and I would like to explain why. Significant representations have been made about the clause from organisations such as the Association of Colleges, on the basis that the power already exists in the Learning and Skills Act 2000. We are satisfied that the clause would be superfluous.
 Clause 196 disagreed to.

Clause 197 - Further education institutions: records

Amendment made: No. 389, in page 119, line 15, leave out 'The Secretary of State may by regulations' and insert— 
'Regulations may'.—[Mr. Timms.]

Ivan Lewis: I beg to move amendment No. 390, in page 119, line 17, at end insert—
'( ) The regulations may, in particular, impose a function on— 
 (a) a local education authority, or 
 (b) the governing body of a further education institution.'.
 The amendment is purely technical. It relates to a power under section 218 of the Education Reform Act 1988, which is being repealed and re-enacted in the clause. The clause simply provides legal reinforcement for further education institutions to share records with other providers. The amendment ensures that the powers are complete. By virtue of the amendment, 
 regulations can, for example, place specific obligations on governing bodies of further education colleges to keep and share records. I hope, therefore, that hon. Members will accept it. 
 Amendment agreed to. 
 Clause 197, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. 
 Clauses 198 to 200 ordered to stand part of the Bill. 
 Schedule 20 agreed to.

Clause 201 - Recoupment: adjustment between

Ivan Lewis: I beg to move amendment No. 298, in page 120, line 34, leave out from 'education' to end of line 37.
 This is a drafting amendment to remove the definition of further education from the clause. Such a definition is redundant because the clause applies only to primary and secondary education. The clause replaces the existing provisions that regulate payments between local education authorities. It is intended that, as now, the regulations will affect payments only for certain categories of pupils receiving education in a different authority from the one to which they belong. From April 2002, further education will be funded by the Learning and Skills Council, not by LEAs, so the clause does not apply to further education and the definition is not required. 
 Amendment agreed to. 
 Clause 201, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. 
 Clauses 202 and 203 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 204 - Orders and regulations

Stephen Timms: I beg to move amendment No. 299, in page 121, line 23, at beginning insert—
'Subject to subsection (1A),'

Peter Pike: With this it will be convenient to take Government Amendments Nos. 300 to 302 and 391.

Stephen Timms: These are all minor technical amendments.
 Amendment agreed to. 
 Amendments made: No. 300, in page 121, line 24, leave out from 'Act' to 'is' in line 25. 
 No. 301, in page 121, line 25, at end insert— 
'(1A) Subsection (1) does not apply to any order under— 
 (a) section 161 or 186, or 
 (b) paragraph 3(6) or 5 of Schedule 1.'
 No. 302, in page 121, line 31, leave out 'section 83(3)(a)'. 
 No. 391, in page 122, line 1, after '(3)(c),', insert— 
'( ) section 124(2),'.—[Mr. Timms.]
 Clause 204, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. 
 Clauses 205 to 207 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 208 - Transitional provisions etc.

Stephen Timms: I beg to move amendment No. 303, in page 124, line 6, at end insert—
'( ) In this section ''statutory provision'' has the same meaning as in Chapter 1 of Part 3.'
 This is a technical amendment that corrects an omission in the original drafting. 
 Amendment agreed to. 
 Clause 208, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. 
 Clause 209 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 210 - Commencement

Stephen Timms: I beg to move amendment No. 284, in page 124, line 25, leave out 'and 63' and insert—
'to 65 and Schedule 7'.

Peter Pike: With this it will be convenient to consider Government amendment No. 423.

Stephen Timms: These are both minor and technical amendments.
 Amendment agreed to. 
 Amendment made: No. 423, in page 124, line 33, after 'paragraphs' insert— 
'paragraphs 3A, 4A, 4B, 33B, 45A and 65A of Schedule 21, and section 209(1) so far as relating to those paragraphs,'.—[Mr. Timms.]
 Clause 210, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. 
 Clause 211 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 21 - Minor and consequential amendments

Amendment made: No. 310, in page 184, line 27, at end insert— 
'Local Government Act 1972 (c. 70) 
 In section 177 of the Local Government Act 1972 (provisions supplementary to sections 173 to 176 of that Act) for subsection (1A) there is substituted— 
 ''(1A) Subsection (1) has effect without prejudice to the operation of— 
 (a) regulations made by virtue of section 94(5C) or 95(3B) of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 (allowances for admission appeal panels); 
 (b) paragraph 3 of Schedule 4 to that Act (allowances for school organisation committees); and 
 (c) regulations made by virtue of section 49(5A) of the Education Act 2002 (allowances for exclusion appeal panels).'' 
 Local Government Act 1974 (c. 7) 
 In section 25(5) of the Local Government Act 1974 (certain bodies to which Part 3 of that Act applies)— 
 (a) for paragraph (c) there is substituted— 
 ''(c) an admission appeal panel constituted in accordance with regulations under section 94(5) or 95(3) of that Act,'', 
 and 
 (b) at the end of paragraph (d) there is inserted 
 ''and 
 (e) an exclusion appeal panel constituted in accordance with regulations under section 49 of the Education Act 2002.''.'—[Mr. Timms.]

Stephen Timms: I beg to move amendment No. 569, in page 184, line 38, at end insert—
'Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 (c. 14) 
 In section 46(3) of the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 (fare-paying passengers on school buses), for the definition of ''free school transport'' there is substituted— 
 '' 'free school transport' means transport provided by a local education authority free of charge— 
 (a) in pursuance of arrangements under section 509(1) or (1A) or section 509AA(7)(b) or (9)(a) of the Education Act 1996, or 
 (b) otherwise, in the exercise of any function of the authority, 
 for the purpose of facilitating the attendance of persons receiving education or training at any premises;''.'.

Peter Pike: With this it will be convenient to consider the following: Government amendments Nos. 311 to 313, 392 to 394, 424, 314, 395, 396, 483, 397, 315, 567, 316 to 318, 286, 398, 319, 320, 399 to 401, 321, 402, 403, 559, 322, 462, 323 to 326, 404, 327, 328, 405 to 407, 329 and 408.
 Amendment No. 463, in page 190, line 39, leave out 'within the meaning of' and insert— 
'pursuant to a notice published under'.
 Amendment No. 417, in page 192, line 7, at end insert— 
'In section 88 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 (Admission authorities and admission arrangements), after subsection 1(a) insert 
 ''( ) in relation to an Academy, the proprietor of the Academy''.'.

Stephen Timms: I have written to all Committee members with some further explanation on the amendments. Several previous technical amendments have not taken up much time in Committee. The amendments in this group, although it is very long, are all technical and include two provisions that are minor and consequential. I do not intend to give a lengthy explanation, although if there are any questions I shall be happy to answer them.
 Amendment agreed to. 
 Amendments made: No. 311, in page 184, line 38, at end insert— 
'Education Act 1986 (c. 40) 
 In section 1(1) of the Education Act 1986 (payment of grant) for ''either of them'' there is substituted ''that body''.'
 No. 312, in page 184, line 38, at end insert— 
'Education Reform Act 1988 (c. 40) 
 In section 124(1)(ba) of the Education Reform Act 1988 (power of higher education corporation to provide secondary education) for ''to persons who would, if they were pupils at a school, be in the fourth key stage'' there is substituted ''suitable to the requirements of persons who have attained the age of fourteen years''.'
 No. 313, in page 184, line 38, at end insert— 
'Tribunals and Inquiries Act 1992 (c. 53) 
 In paragraph 15 of Schedule 1 to the Tribunals and Inquiries Act 1992 (tribunals under general supervision of Council on Tribunals) for paragraphs (b) and (c) there is substituted— 
 ''(b) exclusion appeal panels constituted in accordance with regulations under section 49 of the Education Act 2002; 
 admission appeal panels constituted in accordance with regulations under section 94(5) or 95(3) of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998;''.'
 No. 392, in page 184, line 38, at end insert— 
'Building Act 1984 (c.55) 
 In section 4 of the Building Act 1984 (exemption of educational buildings from building regulations), for subsection (1)(a)(ii) there is substituted— 
 ''(ii) particulars submitted and approved under regulations made under section 544 of the Education Act 1996,''.'.
 No. 393, in page 184, line 38, at end insert— 
'Children Act 1989 (c.14) 
 In Schedule 9A to the Children Act 1989 (child minding and day care for young children), for paragraph 4(2)(b) there is substituted— 
 ''(b) he is subject to a direction under section 138 of the Education Act 2002, given on the grounds that he is unsuitable to work with children;''.'.
 No. 394, in page 184, line 38, at end insert— 
'Environmental Protection Act 1990 (c.43) 
 In section 98(2) of the Environmental Protection Act 1990 (definition of ''educational institution''), paragraph (c)(ii) is omitted.'
 No. 424, in page 184, line 38, at end insert— 
'Education (Fees and Awards) Act 1983 (c.40) 
 In section 1 of the Education (Fees and Awards) Act 1983 (fees at further and higher education institutions), subsection (6) is omitted.'
 No. 314, in page 184, line 39, at end insert— 
'In section 18(1)(aa) of the Further and Higher Education Act 1992 (power of further education corporation to provide secondary education) for ''to persons who would, if they were pupils at a school, be in the fourth key stage'' there is substituted ''suitable to the requirements of persons who have attained the age of fourteen years''.'
 No. 395, in page 185, line 6, at end insert— 
'3A In section 26 of the Further and Higher Education Act 1992 (transfer of staff to further education corporation), subsection (9) is omitted 
 3B In section 37 of the Further and Higher Education Act 1992 (net expenditure of institution about to join further education sector), the following provisions are omitted— 
 (a) subsection (1)(b) and the word ''or'' immediately preceding it, 
 (b) subsection (8)(a), and 
 (c) subsection (9).'.
 No. 396, in page 185, line 10, at end insert— 
'4A In section 43 of the Further and Higher Education Act 1992 (remuneration of employees in educational institutions), for subsection (3) there is substituted— 
 ''(3) This section does not apply to remuneration determined in accordance with an order under section 118 of the Education Act 2002 (determination of school teachers' pay and conditions).''. 
 4B Section 48 of the Further and Higher Education Act 1992 (transfer of institution to further education sector) shall cease to have effect.'
 No. 483, in page 185, line 10, at end insert— 
'4C (1) Section 52A of the Further and Higher Education Act 1992 (duty to safeguard pupils receiving secondary education) is amended as follows 
 (2) In subsection (1)— 
 (a) for ''persons who would, if they were pupils at a school, be in the fourth key stage'' there is substituted ''persons of compulsory school age'', and 
 (b) in paragraph (a), for ''in pursuance of arrangements falling within section 18(1)(aa) of this Act'' there is substituted ''by virtue of section 18(1)(aa) or (ab) of this Act''. 
 (3) In subsection (2) for ''such pupils'' there is substituted ''persons of compulsory school age''.'.
 No. 397, in page 185, line 20, at end insert— 
'In section 14 of the Education Act 1994 (qualification of teachers, &c.), subsections (1), (3) and (4) are omitted.'
 No. 315, in page 185, leave out line 30 and insert— 
'(1) Section 28L of the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 (exclusions) is amended as follows 
 (2) In subsections (2)(a) and (5)(a) for ''section 67(1) of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998'' there is substituted ''section 49 of the Education Act 2002''. 
 (3) In'.
 No. 567, in page 186, line 14, at end insert— 
'(1) Section 3 of the Education Act 1996 (definition of pupil etc) is amended as follows. 
 (2) After subsection (1) there is inserted— 
 ''(1A) A person is not for the purposes of this Act to be treated as a pupil at a school merely because any education is provided for him at the school in the exercise of the powers conferred by section 25 of the Education Act 2002 (power of governing body of maintained school to provide community facilities etc.).'' 
 (3) In subsection (3) for ''Subsection (1) also applies'' there is substituted ''Subsections (1) and (1A) also apply''.'.
 No. 316, in page 187, line 21, at end insert— 
'In section 402 of the Education Act 1996 (obligation to enter pupils for public examinations) in subsection (6), for ''and'' at the end of paragraph (a) there is substituted— 
 ''(aa) 'assessment arrangements' and 'fourth key stage'— 
 (i) in relation to a school maintained by a local education authority in England, have the same meaning as in Part 6 of the Education Act 2002 (the curriculum in England), and 
 (ii) in relation to a school maintained by a local education authority in Wales, have the same meaning as in Part 7 of that Act (the curriculum in Wales); and''.'
 No. 317, in page 187, line 39, after 'State' insert 'and'. 
 No. 318, in page 187, line 41, leave out 'voluntary school' and insert 'by the authority'. 
 No. 286, in page 188, line 35, at end insert— 
'33A In section 533 of the Education Act 1996 (c.56) (duties of governing bodies with respect to provision of school meals etc), for subsection (3)(b) and (c) there is substituted 
 ''and 
 (b) charge every person the same price for the same quantity of the same item.''.'.
 No. 398, in page 188, line 35, at end insert— 
'33A In section 545 of the Education Act 1996 (exemption of educational buildings from building byelaws), in subsection (2)(a) the words ''or section 218(7) of the Education Reform Act 1988'' are omitted 
 33B In section 578 of the Education Act 1996 (meaning of ''the Education Acts''), the reference to the School Teachers' Pay and Conditions Act 1991 is omitted.'
 No. 319, in page 189, line 9, after '(4B)(a),' there is inserted— 
'(a) after ''foundation special school'' there is inserted ''or maintained nursery school'', and 
 (b)'.
 No. 320, in page 190, line 8, at end insert— 
'Education Act 1997 (c. 44) 
 In section 26 of the Education Act 1997 (supplementary provisions relating to discharge by Qualifications and Curriculum Authority of their functions), in subsection (1)(c)(i) for ''section 351 of the Education Act 1996'' there is substituted ''section 74 of the Education Act 2002''. 
 In section 32 of the Education Act 1997 (supplementary provisions relating to discharge by Qualifications, Curriculum and Assessment Authority for Wales of their functions) in subsection (1)(c)(i) for ''section 351 of the Education Act 1996'' there is substituted ''section 95 of the Education Act 2002''.'
 No. 399, in page 190, line 8, at end insert— 
'Education Act 1997 (c.44) 
 44A Section 49 of the Education Act 1997 (regulations about access to children) shall cease to have effect.'
 No. 400, in page 190, line 8, at end insert— 
'Police Act 1997 (c.50) 
 44B (1) Section 113 of the Police Act 1997 (criminal record certificates) is amended as follows 
 (2) In subsection (3A)— 
 (a) in paragraph (a), sub-paragraphs (ii) and (iii) are omitted, 
 (b) for paragraph (b) there is substituted— 
 ''(b) if he is included in the list kept under section 1 of the Protection of Children Act 1999 (c.14), such details of his inclusion as may be prescribed;'', and 
 (c) after paragraph (b) there is inserted— 
 ''(c) whether he is subject to a direction under section 138 of the Education Act 2002; and 
 (d) if he is subject to a direction under that section, such details of the circumstances in which it was given as may be prescribed, including the grounds on which it was given.''. 
 (3) In subsection (3B)— 
 (a) for paragraph (b) there is substituted— 
 ''(b) a position which involves work to which section 138 of the Education Act 2002 applies;'', 
 (b) paragraph (c) is omitted, and 
 (c) the words from ''and the reference'' to the end are omitted. 
 44C In section 115 of the Police Act 1997 (enhanced criminal record certificates), in subsection (6A)— 
 (a) in paragraph (a), sub-paragraphs (ii) and (iii) are omitted, 
 (b) for paragraph (b) there is substituted— 
 ''(b) if he is included in the list kept under section 1 of the Protection of Children Act 1999 (c.14), such details of his inclusion as may be prescribed;'', and 
 (c) after paragraph (b) there is inserted— 
 ''(c) whether he is subject to a direction under section 138 of the Education Act 2002; and 
 (d) if he is subject to a direction under that section, such details of the circumstances in which it was given as may be prescribed, including the grounds on which it was given.''.'.
 No. 401, in page 190, line 8, at end insert— 
'Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998 (c. 30) 
 44D In section 1 of the Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998 (establishment and functions of General Teaching Council), subsection (8) is omitted 
 44E In section 2 of the Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998 (advisory functions of General Teaching Council), in subsection (4), 
for ''by virtue of section 218(6) of the Education Reform Act 1988 (prohibition or restriction on employment of teachers)'' there is substituted ''under section 138 of the Education Act 2002 (prohibition from teaching, &c.)'' 44F In section 3 of the Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998 (registration of teachers), in subsection (3)— 
 (a) the words ''within the meaning of section 218(2) of the Education Reform Act 1988'' are omitted, and 
 (b) for paragraph (a) there is substituted— 
 ''(a) subject to a direction under section 138(1)(a) of the Education Act 2002 (prohibition from teaching, &c.),''. 44G In section 4 of the Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998 (regulations relating to registration with General Teaching Council), for subsection (3)(a) there is substituted— 
 ''(a) a direction given under section 138 of the Education Act 2002 (prohibition from teaching, &c.),''. 44H In section 7 of the Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998 (additional functions of General Teaching Council), in subsection (3), for the words from ''the exercise'' to the end there is substituted ''the specification of requirements of regulations under section 128 of the Education Act 2002 (qualified teacher status)''. 
 44J Section 10 of the Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998 (further functions of General Teaching Council for Wales in relation to teachers) shall cease to have effect. 
 44K Section 11 of the Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998 (registration requirement for school teachers) shall cease to have effect. 
 44L In section 12 of the Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998 (deduction from teachers' salaries of fees for registration with General Teaching Council)— 
 (a) for subsection (2)(b) there is substituted— 
 ''(b) required to be registered in the register by virtue of section 130 of the Education Act 2002'', and 
 (b) in subsection (4), for the definition of ''schools'' there is substituted— 
 '' 'school' means a school maintained by a local education authority or a special school not so maintained''. 
 44M Section 13 of the Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998 (consultation about qualified teacher status) shall cease to have effect. 
 44N Section 18 of the Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998 (qualifications of head teachers) shall cease to have effect. 
 44P In section 19 of the Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998 (requirement for school teacher to serve induction period)— 
 (a) in subsection (7), for ''section 49 of the Education (No. 2) Act 1986'' there is substituted ''section 127 of the Education Act 2002'', 
 (b) in subsection (8), after ''local education authorities'' there is inserted ''in Wales'', and 
 (c) for subsection (10)(b) there is substituted— 
 ''(b) 'relevant school' means a school maintained by a local education authority or a special school not so maintained''. 
 44Q (1) Schedule 2 to the Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998 (disciplinary powers of the General Teaching Council) is amended as follows. 
 (2) In paragraph 1(4) for the words from ''of any powers'' to the end there is substituted ''of the powers exercisable by him, in cases which he considers concern the safety and welfare of persons aged under 18, under section 138 of the Education Act 2002— 
 (a) on the grounds that a person is unsuitable to work with children, or 
 (b) on grounds relating to a person's misconduct or health. 
 (3) Paragraph 1(5) is omitted.''.'
 No. 321, in page 190, line 9, at end insert— 
'In section 7 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 (approval, modification and review of statement of proposals) subsection (10) is omitted.'
 No. 402, in page 190, line 9, at end insert— 
'In section 1 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 (duty to set limit on infant class sizes), for ''qualified teacher'' there is substituted ''school teacher''. 
 In section 4 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 (interpretation) for the definition of ''qualified teacher'' there is substituted— 
 '' 'school teacher' means a person who is a school teacher for the purposes of section 118 of the Education Act 2002 (determination of school teachers' pay and conditions)''.'.
 No. 403, in page 190, line 14, at end insert— 
'45A Section 13 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 (disapplication of school teachers' pay and conditions order) shall cease to have effect.'
 No. 322, in page 190, line 18, at end insert— 
'46A (1) Section 16 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 (power of local education authority to appoint additional governors) is amended as follows 
 (2) In subsection (5) for ''(despite anything in Part II of Schedule 9)'' there is substituted ''(despite anything in regulations under section 18 of the Education Act 2002)''. 
 (3) In subsection (10) for ''(despite paragraph 14 of Schedule 9)'' there is substituted ''(despite anything in regulations under section 18 of the Education Act 2002)''. 
 46B (1) Section 18 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 (power of Secretary of State to appoint additional governors) is amended as follows 
 (2) In subsection (5) for ''(despite anything in Part II of Schedule 9)'' there is substituted ''(despite anything in regulations under section 18 of the Education Act 2002)'' 
 (3) In subsection (6)(b) for ''paragraph 14 of Schedule 9'' there is substituted ''regulations under section 18 of the Education Act 2002''.'.
 No. 559, in page 190, line 38, after 'authority' insert 'in England'.—[Mr. Timms.]

Peter Pike: Now to amendment No. 463.

Stephen Timms: Moved formally.

Graham Brady: On a point of order, I wonder whether we might have some clarification. Amendment No. 463, which I did not move, appears also on our selection list as Government amendment No. 463, which the Minister has apparently moved formally. Can you elucidate whether the fact that I did not move it or the fact that the Minister did takes precedent?

Peter Pike: There is a typing error on the selection list. Amendment No. 463 has not been moved. I hope that that clarifies the point. I now ask the Minister to move formally the rest of the Government amendments to this schedule.
 Amendments made: No. 323, in page 191, line 30, leave out 'In'. 
 No. 324, in page 191, line 31, leave out from 'have' to 'subsection' and insert— 
'delegated budgets) is amended as follows. 
 (2) In subsection (4) for ''local schools budget'' there is substituted ''LEA budget or schools budget''. 
 (3) In'.
 No. 325, in page 192, line 11, leave out paragraph 58 and insert— 
'58(1) Section 127 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 (code of practice for securing effective relationships between local education authorities and maintained schools) is amended as follows 
 (2) In subsection (2), after ''maintained school'' there is inserted ''or maintained nursery school''. 
 (3) In subsection (6)— 
 (a) after paragraph (c) there is inserted— 
 ''(cc) section 16A(1),'', 
 (b) paragraphs (e), (f), (h), (i) and (k) are omitted, and 
 (c) after paragraph (l) there is inserted— 
 ''(m) regulations under section 18 of the Education Act 2002, so far as relating to the appointment of persons as local education authority governors, 
 (n) regulations under section 28(3) of that Act (governors' reports), 
 (o) regulations under section 30 of that Act (control of school premises), 
 (p) sections 34 and 35 of that Act (staffing) and regulations under those sections, and 
 (q) Schedule 2 to that Act (effect on staffing of suspension of delegated budget),'' '.
 No. 326, in page 192, line 25, at end insert— 
' ''foundation governor'', in relation to a foundation school, a foundation special school or a voluntary school, means a person appointed as a foundation governor in accordance with regulations under section 18 of the Education Act 2002;'.
 No. 404, in page 192, line 29, after '142(1)', insert— 
'( ) in the entry beginning ''qualified teacher'' for ''qualified teacher'' there is substituted ''school teacher''.'
 No. 327, in page 192, line 29, leave out 'and' and insert— 
'( ) in the entry beginning ''foundation governor'', for ''paragraph 2 of Schedule 9'' there is substituted ''section 142(1)'', 
 ( ) in the entry beginning ''individual schools budget'', for ''section 46(2)'' there is substituted ''section 45A(3)'', 
 ( ) after the entry beginning ''land'' there is inserted— 
 ''LEA budget (in Part 2)section 45A(1)'', and'.
 No. 328, in page 192, line 31, at end insert— 
'and 
 ( ) after the entry beginning ''school which has selective admission arrangements'' there is inserted— 
 ''schools budget (in Part 2)section 45A(2)''.'.
 No. 405, in page 194, line 10, at end insert— 
'65A In Schedule 32 to the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 (transitional provisions), paragraph 7 is omitted.'
 No. 406, in page 194, line 11, at end insert— 
'65B Section 5 of the Protection of Children Act 1999 (prohibiting or restricting employment of teachers, &c.) shall cease to have effect. 
 65C (1) Section 7 of the Protection of Children Act 1999 (effect of inclusion in lists of individuals unsuitable to work with children) is amended as follows. 
 (2) In subsection (1)— 
 (a) in paragraph (a), sub-paragraphs (ii) and (iii) are omitted, 
 (b) in paragraph (b), for ''any of those lists'' there is substituted ''that list'', and 
 (c) after paragraph (b) there is inserted— 
 ''(c) shall ascertain whether he is subject to a direction under section 138 of the Education Act 2002, given on the grounds that he is unsuitable to work with children; and 
 (d) if he is subject to a direction under that section given on those grounds, shall not offer him employment in a child care position''. 
 (3) In subsection (2)— 
 (a) in paragraph (a), for ''any of the lists mentioned in subsection (1) above'' there is substituted ''the list kept under section 1 above or subject to a direction under section 138 of the Education Act 2002, given on the grounds that he is unsuitable to work with children'', 
 (b) the word ''and'' immediately preceding paragraph (c) is omitted, 
 (c) in paragraph (c), for ''any of those lists'' there is substituted ''the list kept under section 1 above'', and 
 (d) after paragraph (c) there is inserted ''; and 
 (d) if the individual was subject to a direction under section 138 of the Education Act 2002, given on the grounds that he is unsuitable to work with children, does not offer him employment in a child care position''. 
 (4) Subsection (4) is omitted. 
 65D In section 9(2) of the Protection of Children Act 1999 (proceedings of the Tribunal), for paragraph (b) there is substituted— 
 ''(b) on an appeal, application for leave or review under section 139 of the Education Act 2002;''.'.
 No. 407, in page 194, line 14, at end insert— 
'66A(1) Section 12 of the Protection of Children Act 1999 (interpretation) is amended as follows. 
 (2) In subsection (1), the definition of ''the 1988 Act'' is omitted. 
 (3) In subsection (3), for paragraph (a) there is substituted— 
 ''(a) it involves work to which section 138 of the Education Act 2002 applies;''.'.
 No. 329, in page 194, line 15, at end insert— 
'66A (1) Section 7 of the Learning and Skills Act 2000 (funding of school sixth-forms by Learning and Skills Council for England) is amended as follows 
 (2) In subsection (1)(a) for ''local schools budget'' there is substituted ''schools budget''. 
 (3) In subsection (3) for ''Local schools budget'' there is substituted ''Schools budget''. 
 66B(1) Section 36 of the Learning and Skills Act 2000 (funding of school sixth-forms by National Council for Education and Training for Wales) is amended as follows 
 (2) In subsection (1)(a) for ''local schools budget'' there is substituted ''schools budget''. 
 (3) In subsection (3) for ''Local schools budget'' there is substituted ''Schools budget''.'.
 No. 408, in page 194, line 24, at end insert— 
'Criminal Justice and Court Services Act 2000 (c.43) 
 67A (1) Section 35 of the Criminal Justice and Court Services Act 2000 (persons disqualified from working with children: offences) is amended as follows. 
 (2) For subsection (4)(b) there is substituted— 
 ''(b) he is subject to a direction under section 138 of the Education Act 2002 (prohibition from teaching, &c.), given on the grounds that he is unsuitable to work with children,''. 
 (3) Subsection (5) is omitted.'.—[Mr. Timms.]
 Schedule 21, as amended, agreed to.

Schedule 22 - Repeals

Amendments made: No. 425, in page 195, line 7, at end insert— 
'Further and Higher Education Act 1992 (c.13) 
 Section 26(9). Section 48.'.
 No. 426, in page 195, line 7, at end insert— 
'Education Act 1996 (c.56) 
 In section 578, the reference to the School Teachers' Pay and Conditions Act 1991. In Schedule 37, paragraph 101.'.
 No. 427, in page 195, line 9, at end insert— 
'School Standards and Framework Act 1998 (c.31) 
 Section 13. In Schedule 30, paragraphs 24 to 28 and 44. In Schedule 32, paragraph 7.'.
 No. 428, in page 195, leave out lines 23 and 24. 
 No. 429, in page 195, line 24, at end insert— 
'Local Government Act 1974 (c.7) 
 Section 25(5)(b).'.
 No. 430, in page 195, line 27, at end insert— 
'Education (Fees and Awards) Act 1983 (c.40) 
 Section 1(6).'. 
 No. 431, in page 195, line 28, column 2, at end insert 'and the word ''and'' immediately preceding it'. 
 No. 432, in page 196, line 9, at end insert— 
'Environmental Protection Act 1990 (c.43) 
 Section 9(2)(c)(ii).'. 
 No. 433, in page 196, line 11, column 2, at end insert— 
'In section 37, subsection (1)(b) and the word ''or'' immediately preceding it and subsections (8)(a) and (9).'.
 No. 570, in page 196, line 14, column 2, leave out 'and 47' and insert ', 47, 49 and 90'. 
 No. 435, in page 196, line 18, column 2, at end insert— 
'In section 14, subsections (1), (3) and (4). In Schedule 2, paragraph 8(4).'.
 No. 436, in page 196, column 2, leave out lines 22 to 24 and insert— 
'The whole Act so far as unrepealed'.
 No. 437, in page 197, line 7, column 2, at end insert— 
'In section 545(2)(a), the words ''or section 218(7) of the Education Reform Act 1988''.'.
 No. 438, in page 197, line 14, column 2, at end insert— 
'In section 578, the entries relating to the Education Act 1967 and the Nursery Education and Grant-Maintained Schools Act 1996.'.
 No. 439, in page 197, line 27, after 'it,', insert 'paragraph 76,'. 
 No. 440, in page 197, line 31, column 2, leave out '5(3)' and insert '6(3)'. 
 No. 441, in page 197, line 52, column 2, at end insert— 
'Section 23(4). Section 29(4).'
 No. 442, in page 197, line 52, column 2, at end insert— 
'Section 49.'.
 No. 568, in page 197, line 53, column 2, leave out '27, 28, 36 and 56' and insert '9(3), 14, 27, 28 and 36'. 
 No. 444, in page 197, line 53, at end insert— 
'Police Act 1997 (c.50) 
 In section 113— in subsection (3A), paragraph (a)(ii) and (iii), and (b) in subsection (3B), paragraph (c) and the words from ''and the reference'' to the end. Section 115(6A)(a)(ii) and (iii).'.
 No. 445, in page 198, line 2, column 2, leave out 'Section 3(3)(c)' and insert— 
'Section 1(8). In section 3— the words ''within the meaning of section 218(2) of the Education Reform Act 1988'', and subsection (3)(c). Section 10. Section 11. Section 13. Section 18. In Schedule 2, paragraph 1(5). In Schedule 3, paragraph 5.'.
 No. 446, in page 198, line 4, column 2, at end insert— 
'Section 7(10).'
 No. 447, in page 198, line 7, column 2, at end insert 'Section 16(4) and (13).' 
 No. 414, in page 198, line 10, column 2, at end insert— 
'In section 33(1), the word ''and'' at the end of paragraph (b)'.
 No. 448, in page 198, line 23, column 2, at end insert 'Section 115.' 
 No. 449, in page 198, line 32, column 2, leave out '127(6)(f) and (k)' and insert '127(6)(e), (f), (h), (i) and (k)'. 
 No. 450, in page 198, line 33, column 2, at end insert— 
'( ) in subsection (2)(b), the words ''paragraph 3(5) or 4 of Schedule 10'','.
 No. 558, in page 198, line 36, column 2, leave out from 'subsection' to end of line 37 and insert— 
'(5), paragraph (a)(ii) and (iii) and, in paragraph (b)(ii), the word ''46''.'.
 No. 452, in page 198, line 38, column 2, leave out 'entry relating to the' and insert— 
'entries relating to local schools budget and'.
 No. 453, in page 198, line 53, column 2, after '26,' insert— 
'in paragraph 1, sub-paragraph (1)(c) and the word ''or'' preceding it, and.'
 No. 454, in page 198, line 54, column 2, at end insert 'and Part 2'. 
 No. 455, in page 198, line 55, column 2, at end insert— 
'paragraph 3(3), paragraph 14, paragraph 17, paragraph 47(a),'.
 No. 456, in page 199, line 7, column 2, at end insert 'paragraph 204(b)'. 
 No. 457, in page 199, line 8, column 2, at beginning insert— 
'Section 5. In section 7— subsection (1)(a)(ii) and (iii), the word ''and'' immediately preceding subsection (2)(c), and subsection (4).'.
 No. 458, in page 199, line 9, column 2, at end insert— 
'In section 12(2), the definition of ''the 1988 Act''.'.
 No. 459, in page 199, line 11, at end insert— 
'Immigration and Asylum Act 1999 (c.33) 
 In Schedule 14, paragraph 117.' 
 No. 461, in page 199, line 19, column 2, after '26,' insert '30,'. 
 No. 460, in page 199, line 19, column 2, after 'paragraphs', insert '18,'. 
 No. 462, in page 199, line 21, at end insert— 
'Criminal Justice and Court Services Act 2000 (c.43) 
 Section 35(5). In Schedule 7, paragraph 83.'.—[Mr. Timms.]
 Schedule 22, as amended, agreed to.

New clause 5 - City colleges

'(1) This section applies to a school which is known immediately before the coming into force of section 62 as a city technology college or city college for the technology of the arts. 
 (2) If the proprietor of the school and the Secretary of State so agree— 
 (a) the agreement made in relation to the school under section 482 of the Education Act 1996 (c.56) as it had effect at the time the agreement was made shall for all purposes be regarded as having been made under that section as substituted by section 62, and 
 (b) accordingly, the school shall be known as an Academy. 
 (3) Subject to subsection (2), the agreement made in relation to the school under section 482 of the Education Act 1996 (c.56) as it had effect at the time the agreement was made is not affected by anything in section 62.'.—[Mr. Timms.]
 Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

Peter Pike: New clause 2 is listed for debate, but it has been debated previously. You cannot debate it, but you can ask a question. If you wish to move it formally, I can put the question.

Andrew Turner: No, sir.
 Question proposed, That the Chairman do report the Bill, as amended, to the House.

Stephen Timms: I should like to make a few remarks before we formally report the Bill to the House. On behalf of the entire Committee, I wish to express our thanks to you, Mr. Griffiths, and to Mrs. Adams, whom we have not seen for a few weeks. Between you, you guided our deliberations with great skill, and we are grateful to you for bringing us successfully to this point in our deliberations.
 I also thank the Clerks and all those who have worked with the Committee: the Hansard reporters, the police, the messengers and others. I wish to thank my officials, who have worked extremely hard over a long period—a good deal longer than we have—and who will continue to work on the Bill for some time to come. I thank my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Education and Skills, who shared much of the load on the Front Bench with great skill, and my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Wales, who ensured that the interests of Wales were promoted and safeguarded throughout our deliberations. 
 My hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham, East (Mr. Heppell), played an influential role off as well as on the record. The contributions of my hon. Friend the Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker) have not been recorded in Hansard but have been none the less considerable. I also wish to thank all my other hon. Friends, whose contributions have been distinguished more by their quality than their quantity. I want to express my thanks to them for their forbearance. 
 I also thank Opposition Members. The hon. Member for Altrincham and Sale, West contributed in a courteous and measured manner, which has helped the Committee, and only rarely gave vent to bouts of indignation. I also thank his colleagues on the Front Bench. 
 The hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Mr. Willis) made contributions characterised by vigour and commitment, which the Committee appreciated, and I am sure that the hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr. Laws) will pass on those sentiments. We have also appreciated the well-informed and warm banter between the hon. Member for Isle of Wight and his good friends in the Liberal Democrat party. That has entertained us a great deal. 
 The Bill will raise standards, especially in secondary education. We shall realise our ambition for a modern and effective secondary system that commands the confidence of every community in the country. All Committee members will receive an invitation from the all-party group on children, chaired by my hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and Wyre (Mr. Dawson), who is organising a performance by children linked to NCH Action for Children to convey their views about secondary education. That will be on 7 February, and may be of interest to hon. Members. I thank Committee members for their interest and commitment, and I conclude by thanking you again, Mr. Pike, for steering us successfully to a conclusion.

Graham Brady: I know that the Minister will be reassured to learn that I remain indignant—I am just not showing it. We have concluded the Committee stage in a better manner than we began it. I am pleased that we were able, albeit at a late hour, to convey the importance of proper scrutiny. We are grateful that the Government acceded to a request for more time on Report, in recognition of those parts of the Bill that were not sufficiently scrutinised in Committee because of timetable constraints.
 On behalf of myself, and my hon. Friends in Her Majesty's Opposition, I thank you, Mr. Pike, and your colleagues in the Chair who have assisted us. I thank the Clerks and the other staff of the House whose services have been invaluable and unfailing. I also thank officials who have been helpful in ensuring that Opposition Members receive answers to questions that Ministers cannot supply off the top of their heads. I particularly thank my hon. Friends, who have been unstinting in their service, and constant in their attendance. Today is a slight exception because one is unwell, and another is speaking in Westminster Hall shortly. 
 I also thank our friends, in this context, from the Liberal Democrats. We have found surprising amounts of common ground, which should give pause for thought to Ministers and make them a little worried. Despite our differences, on matters of substance regarding the Bill and on procedural matters, we have enjoyed good-natured debates. I am grateful to the Ministers, who have contributed to that, and their colleagues on the Government Benches. Finally, Mr. Pike, I renew my thanks to you for your courteous and helpful chairmanship.

David Laws: May I convey the apologies of my hon. Friend the Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough for not attending the end of the proceedings. Unfortunately, he had to attend an important meeting in his constituency about the rail crisis, but a rail strike prevented him from getting there and he had to leave the Committee early. We have also enjoyed the proceedings and are grateful to the Ministers for the reasonable way in which they dealt with Liberal Democrat and Conservative Members' inquiries. We also thank you, Mr. Pike, and the other Chairmen of the Committee, and the officials and others who were involved in the proceedings. We enjoyed the opportunity to debate fundamental issues of principle, and less fundamental issues about schools at risk of falling into the sea and other matters, which were also important to consider.
 We have learned several important lessons that we will pass on to those who focus on the targeting strategy of the Liberal Democrats at the next general election, and I am sure that the Isle of Wight will receive even closer attention than usual. I say that in the nicest possible way, and we look forward to further proceedings of the Bill.

Peter Pike: Those comments are traditionally made at the end of a sitting and are almost out of order, although the Chairman never rules them out of order. I will pass them on to the other Chairmen of the Committee. This is the first time that I have chaired a Committee, and I have enjoyed it, although the first
 sitting was a little tiring. However, I warn the Under-Secretary of State for Education and Skills that if he keeps referring to Manchester City and its relationship to Burnley in future sittings, I might jump on him quickly. If Burnley does not reverse its table position by the end of the season, I hope that we will repeat 1946–47, the first year after the war, when City went up as champions from the second division and Burnley were runners-up.
 To conclude, when some hon. Members discussed history this afternoon, it reminded me that when I started school we learned in air raid shelters, so that what for some people were current affairs are now history. 
 Question put and agreed to. 
 Bill, as amended, to be reported. 
 Committee rose at four minutes to Four o'clock.